[Mormons and Evolution] 1/16/2006 08:02:29 PM

Jared:  Well, as you might guess, I feel you've left out some relevant material because without death before the fall, evolution would be impossible.

1. In the April 1988 General Conference, besides the paragraphs you've quoted in your #3, Elder Packer also said mortality could not have existed without the fall:

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"The creation of their bodies in the image of God, as a separate creation, was crucial to the plan. Their subsequent fall was essential if the condition of mortality was to exist and the plan proceed." (Boyd K. Packer, "Atonement, Agency, Accountability," Ensign, May 1988, 70.)
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If mortality (death) didn't exist without the fall, then it clearly didn't exist before the fall.

Some speculate that the condition of mortality existed outside the garden prior to the fall. A person who holds that view might say, speaking of Adam and Eve, "Their subsequent fall was an essential step to their mortality." But those were not Elder Packer's words. He didn't say, "their mortality." He said, "the condition of mortality."

2. You missed the October 1988 General Conference entirely. In this talk, Elder Packer again identified the Fall as the point in time after which "all living things" experienced "mortal death":

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"Since death is ever present with us, a knowledge of how essential it is to the plan of salvation is of immense, practical value. Every one of us should know how and why it came to be in the beginning.

"Mortal death came into the world at the Fall....

"It was as though a clock were set and a time given. Thereafter, all living things moved inexorably toward mortal death." (Boyd K. Packer, "Funerals—A Time for Reverence ," Ensign, Nov. 1988, 18;italics added.)
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"Thereafter" means "from a specified time onward; from then on." In other words, it didn't happen before the time specified. Some claim death came for Adam and Eve at the fall. But that isn't what Elder Packer said. He said death came in the beginning at the Fall and "thereafter all living things" died.


3. I disagree that Elder Packer is "more open to the evolution of animals" in his paper on "The Law and the Light"—for three very good reasons.

First, in this paper, he again (for the third time in 1988) identifies the Fall as that point in time after which "all living things" experienced "mortal or temporal death":

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"The word fall describes well what transpired when Adam and Eve were driven from the garden. A transformation took place which made them 'a little lower than the angels.' (In the Hebrew text, the word “angel” is given as 'gods,' see Ps 8:5, Heb 2:7-9.) The bodies formed for mankind became temporal or physical bodies. The scriptures say “the life of all flesh is in the blood thereof” (Lev 17:11-13; Deut 12:23; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith 199-200, 367 Kimball 5-6).

"After the transformation caused by the Fall, bodies of flesh and bone and blood (unlike our spirit bodies), would not endure forever. Somehow the ingredient blood carried with it a limit to life. It was as though a clock were set and a time given. Thereafter, all living things moved inexorably toward mortal or temporal death." (Boyd K. Packer, "The Law and the Light," The Book of Mormon: Jacob through Words of Mormon, to Learn with Joy, Provo, Utah: Religious Studies Center, BYU, 1990, 12; italics in the original).
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Second, although he says we "may safely study the adaptation of living things to the environment" (Ibid., 10), near the end of the paper, he also says,

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"What application the evolutionary theory has to animals gives me no concern. That is another question entirely, one to be pursued by science. But remember, the scriptures speak of the spirit in animals and other living things, and of each multiplying after its own kind (D&C 77:2; 2 Nephi 2:22; Moses 3:9; Abr 4:11-12, 24)." (Ibid., 21.)
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It's the word "but" that some don't see. But remember what the scriptures say about animals and see 2 Nephi 2:22! Elder Packer believes verse 22 refers to animals!

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"And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end." (2 Nephi 2:22.)
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And finally, the phrase "after its own kind" ties this paper neatly back to "The Pattern of Our Parentage" (Ensign, Nov. 1984, 67), thereby throwing a good deal of doubt on the supposition that his position in your #4 is substantially different from his position in your #1.

 

Posted by Gary

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Posted by Gary to Mormons and Evolution at 1/16/2006 08:02:29 PM