[Mormons and Evolution] 12/02/2005 12:51:12 PM
At last some comments. I certainly thought that my post was at least a little controversial and deserving of some criticism.
Your first comment is a rather good one, but I'm not sure that your response is broad enough to cover the gap its trying to bridge. For staters, the actually ecosystem which supports man is but a small portion of what actually has arisen. I simply don't accept that all the the ecosystems which now exist on earth, let alone all those which have existed, have done so in order to support man's existence. I don't actually think that you really believe it this strongly either, but that is what your comment amounts to.
Your comment also begs the original question to a large extent. Obviously the design which we are talking about here far exceeds that which those engineers were working on. That, it seems to me, is all your comment really says in the end, for why couldn't God have simply intelligently designed an ecosystem suitable for his purposes on the spot rather than, again, using such a prodigously wasteful and indirect method of creation? This is simply the original question put in its proper perspective.
As regards your second comment, Darwin did state, and correctly so, that the most intense competition will be between those organisms who occupy the most similar niches.
Your comment on one interpretation agrees with my post if by "environment" you mean selective pressures. I don't think that the selective pressures can be controled by anybody due to their being intrinsically self-defined and I consider the environment as you seem to be describing it as being part of these selective pressures.
If, however, environment is taken to mean God's somehow artificially protecting or endangering particular organisms then I do think that it is possible that it could be done. HOWEVER, there are some serious drawbacks:
1) Its would be VERY DIFFICULT to overcome the intrinsically self-defined selective pressures require huge amounts of divine supervision and interference.
2) We have absolutely no reason to suggest that God works in such non-subtle ways. It simply seems wrong to suggest that God interferred with the course of nature all the time before there men on the earth but stopped intervening once man showed up. Serious issues regarding the problem of evil naturally arise.
3) Similarly, if God did have such power and influence over the evolutionary history of life, then He is, at least indirectly, responsible for all the bad things which have evolved as well, for He could have avoided them. This is what makes ID such bad theology for it puts God in role of a very unintelligent designer.
It is issue like these that help keep Evolutionary Creationism in check, making it obviously clear that such a position is based upon pure faith without any pretentions to science. This, in my opinion, is a good thing.
Posted by Jeffrey Giliam
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Posted by Jeffrey D. Giliam to Mormons and Evolution at 12/02/2005 12:51:12 PM
Your first comment is a rather good one, but I'm not sure that your response is broad enough to cover the gap its trying to bridge. For staters, the actually ecosystem which supports man is but a small portion of what actually has arisen. I simply don't accept that all the the ecosystems which now exist on earth, let alone all those which have existed, have done so in order to support man's existence. I don't actually think that you really believe it this strongly either, but that is what your comment amounts to.
Your comment also begs the original question to a large extent. Obviously the design which we are talking about here far exceeds that which those engineers were working on. That, it seems to me, is all your comment really says in the end, for why couldn't God have simply intelligently designed an ecosystem suitable for his purposes on the spot rather than, again, using such a prodigously wasteful and indirect method of creation? This is simply the original question put in its proper perspective.
As regards your second comment, Darwin did state, and correctly so, that the most intense competition will be between those organisms who occupy the most similar niches.
Your comment on one interpretation agrees with my post if by "environment" you mean selective pressures. I don't think that the selective pressures can be controled by anybody due to their being intrinsically self-defined and I consider the environment as you seem to be describing it as being part of these selective pressures.
If, however, environment is taken to mean God's somehow artificially protecting or endangering particular organisms then I do think that it is possible that it could be done. HOWEVER, there are some serious drawbacks:
1) Its would be VERY DIFFICULT to overcome the intrinsically self-defined selective pressures require huge amounts of divine supervision and interference.
2) We have absolutely no reason to suggest that God works in such non-subtle ways. It simply seems wrong to suggest that God interferred with the course of nature all the time before there men on the earth but stopped intervening once man showed up. Serious issues regarding the problem of evil naturally arise.
3) Similarly, if God did have such power and influence over the evolutionary history of life, then He is, at least indirectly, responsible for all the bad things which have evolved as well, for He could have avoided them. This is what makes ID such bad theology for it puts God in role of a very unintelligent designer.
It is issue like these that help keep Evolutionary Creationism in check, making it obviously clear that such a position is based upon pure faith without any pretentions to science. This, in my opinion, is a good thing.
Posted by Jeffrey Giliam
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Posted by Jeffrey D. Giliam to Mormons and Evolution at 12/02/2005 12:51:12 PM
posted by Christian Y. Cardall at 12:50 PM
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